We're probably arguing semantics to some extent. I'm a bit open on what is the right return because I don't know how many teams can actually bid for him and sign him.

But if I'm Tampa, I'm looking for whatever is the the best trade I can get. They'll get better than that 2nd. Will they get full value though which is probably a mid first or comparable prospect. They lose some leverage if they wait until he starts the college season, so I expect them going public was to get trade discussions moving.

I don't think it's a first round issue as much as a college player issue. It's tricky that you can't sign them early and they can choose to be UFAs much sooner than other prospects. This is happening every year. Taking a stand and just taking a second at the end of the 2027 draft wouldn't be worth it to me.
- Tojo.

I would expect it to go down similar to the McG-Yager trade. They'll either get a slightly lower rated prospect or a pick roughly late first / early second.

That's to me the line in the sand. Teams will know you can stand firm rejecting offers less than that, since you can get that late second if you do nothing.

Why are you guys saying WIN and now TB have no leverage? They can simply do nothing and get a 2nd round pick when the player leaves.

In McG's case, WIN would've got a mid 2nd rounder, so no reason for them to oblige the player without something of more value than that. With Howard it would be a very late 2nd rounder, but again I think they don't want to give the player what he wants without getting a decent bit more than that in return.
- MickV

Its not that they have no leverage. They do. But that leverage slowly fades with every passing week. The biggest thing for Tampa is that something now is worth more than something later. Its 2025, they are in win now mode for a few more years. So waiting an extra 2 years, until 2027 for that 2nd is not something they should want to do.

Howard is a completely different situation from McGroaty though. I don't think there were many teams that viewed him as NHL ready... and he still isnt.

On the flip side, I think every team in the playoffs right now could find a spot for Howard in the lineup. Where I hated the McGroaty/Yager trade, I would have been perfectly fine with trading him for Howard.

They are going to get way more than a 2nd for Howard. A big part of their return however will be where he is willing to go, as any trade for him will be contingent on him signing a contract. If push came to shove, I'd probably be willing to let our #11 go for him.

If your argument is he's just a better version of Poulin, you're probably trying to convince the wrong guy lol. I obviously appreciate that type of player.

Big difference is Poulin was a reach that they hoped would improve into a top 6 complimentary guy but never did. McGroarty has always been a highly regarded prospect.
- Tojo.

Well I am saying he IS Poulin, not better than. And while I liked the idea of the player Poulin was supposed to turn into, at 24 years old Poulin has just 2 NHL assists and .6PPG at the AHL level.

McGroarty has surpassed him in the NHL with 3 points at 21 (with a much more favorable opportunity) and is also scoring at a .6PPG clip in the AHL.

So yeah, he is marginally ahead of Poulin but I have a feeling in a couple years we will be talking about the player we wished he turned into, rather than the player he is.

Well I am saying he IS Poulin, not better than. And while I liked the idea of the player Poulin was supposed to turn into, at 24 years old Poulin has just 2 NHL assists and .6PPG at the AHL level.

McGroarty has surpassed him in the NHL with 3 points at 21 (with a much more favorable opportunity) and is also scoring at a .6PPG clip in the AHL.

So yeah, he is marginally ahead of Poulin but I have a feeling in a couple years we will be talking about the player we wished he turned into, rather than the player he is.
- MacPatty

Well, I don't agree with that. But you've been lower on McGroarty than most so that's your opinion, and I think we both hope you're wrong.

Poulin is also 3 years older than McGroarty so I wouldn't say that's a fair comparison. He just turned 21 on his callup.

According to *ahem* Dan kingerski the pens have emerged as front runners for Isaac Howard. So any bets on no first round draft pick again?
- 10inchTerror

Theres no reason for the price to be a 1st. The compensation pick paid to Tampa would be a 2027 pick at the end of the second round. So like pick 65 or so.

The big thing is what team(s) is Howard willing to sign for, if any.

Pens are definitely a good spot for Howard if he wants the playing time. He’d be a top 6 player entering training camp and probably very little competition unless they signed a free agent or he just completely sucked and lost the spot.

Pens have the assets to get him. It comes down to whether or not Howard wants to play in Pittsburgh. If Dubas doesn’t get Howard, I think it’s safe to blame the player and not the GM. Unless Dubas specifically comes out and says “nah, we didn’t want him”.

Well, I don't agree with that. But you've been lower on McGroarty than most so that's your opinion, and I think we both hope you're wrong.

Poulin is also 3 years older than McGroarty so I wouldn't say that's a fair comparison. He just turned 21 on his callup.
- Tojo.

Yep, I will be very happy if I am wrong! I honestly hope I am wrong. It would be amazing to get Howard and have Howard, Koivunen and McGroarty as our LWs next season.

Position of weakness to a position full of potential.

Theres no reason for the price to be a 1st. The compensation pick paid to Tampa would be a 2027 pick at the end of the second round. So like pick 65 or so.

The big thing is what team(s) is Howard willing to sign for, if any.
- SuperHenderson13

The point you are missing is that it doesnt matter at all what the worst case scenario is for Tampa. It matters what another team is willing to pay to get Howard (and yeah, as you mentioned, where Howard is willing to play).

It will cost a 1st for sure. I don't think anyone in the top 10 would trade their 1st for him straight up, but past that, I think just about every team. Especially the teams that have multiple picks later in the first round. Montreal, Calgary, Philly, Nashville, San Jose, Chicago... those teams would all be dumb to not trade one of their 1sts for him.

Yep, I will be very happy if I am wrong! I honestly hope I am wrong. It would be amazing to get Howard and have Howard, Koivunen and McGroarty as our LWs next season.

Position of weakness to a position full of potential.
- MacPatty

If I had to bet money on it I would say Hayes season this season is about what Mcgroarty looks like as an NHL player.

The point you are missing is that it doesnt matter at all what the worst case scenario is for Tampa. It matters what another team is willing to pay to get Howard (and yeah, as you mentioned, where Howard is willing to play).

It will cost a 1st for sure. I don't think anyone in the top 10 would trade their 1st for him straight up, but past that, I think just about every team. Especially the teams that have multiple picks later in the first round. Montreal, Calgary, Philly, Nashville, San Jose, Chicago... those teams would all be dumb to not trade one of their 1sts for him.
- MacPatty

Why would it cost a 1st round pick for a guy who didnt even make The Hockey Writers' 100 Top Prospects list?

This guy wasnt like McGroarty or Cutter Gauthier. Those guys were top 15 picks, top 5 in Gauthier's case. This was the 31st overall pick in the 1st round. I think for reference sake, when we acquired McGroarty, he was like top 40 in the Top 100 Prospects list.

Im not even sure Id trade a decent 2nd round pick for him let alone a first.

Why would it cost a 1st round pick for a guy who didnt even make The Hockey Writers' 100 Top Prospects list?

This guy wasnt like McGroarty or Cutter Gauthier. Those guys were top 15 picks, top 5 in Gauthier's case. This was the 31st overall pick in the 1st round. I think for reference sake, when we acquired McGroarty, he was like top 40 in the Top 100 Prospects list.

Im not even sure Id trade a decent 2nd round pick for him let alone a first.
- SuperHenderson13

Hockey Writers isn't the best site for opinions. Pretty surprising he's only an honorable mention.

Button has him at 43 and Wheeler at 55 in their mid-season rankings.

Why would it cost a 1st round pick for a guy who didnt even make The Hockey Writers' 100 Top Prospects list?

This guy wasnt like McGroarty or Cutter Gauthier. Those guys were top 15 picks, top 5 in Gauthier's case. This was the 31st overall pick in the 1st round. I think for reference sake, when we acquired McGroarty, he was like top 40 in the Top 100 Prospects list.

Im not even sure Id trade a decent 2nd round pick for him let alone a first.
- SuperHenderson13

I think the issue is teams trying to outbid others. You have a potential top 9 player for trade on a cheap contract. A top 12 pick would be tough to give up. But a team currently in the playoffs would probably consider using their 25th-ish pick for him

Why would it cost a 1st round pick for a guy who didnt even make The Hockey Writers' 100 Top Prospects list?

This guy wasnt like McGroarty or Cutter Gauthier. Those guys were top 15 picks, top 5 in Gauthier's case. This was the 31st overall pick in the 1st round. I think for reference sake, when we acquired McGroarty, he was like top 40 in the Top 100 Prospects list.

Im not even sure Id trade a decent 2nd round pick for him let alone a first.
- SuperHenderson13

Well a year ago Schaffer wasn't even in the conversation as a top prospect and Hagens was the unanimous #1. A lot can change in a year.

Also, I am not sure why you think that a #31 pick from a couple years ago, who has exceeded expectations and not yet burned a year on his ELC deal would be worth less than he was when drafted?

If he burned 2 years of his ELC, then maybe it hurts his value, but you are getting more fully developed player on an entry level deal for up to 3 years...? There is a hell of a lot of value in that, especially if you are tight up to the cap.

Im not saying he is a cant miss top line player, but he certainly has some serious top 6 potential, even in the next year or so. Thats worth a 1st rounder still.

Quenneville is a great hire for Anaheim. I'd have loved him but probably not the fit for right now.

Is Babcock still around... 🤣

Well a year ago Schaffer wasn't even in the conversation as a top prospect and Hagens was the unanimous #1. A lot can change in a year.

Also, I am not sure why you think that a #31 pick from a couple years ago, who has exceeded expectations and not yet burned a year on his ELC deal would be worth less than he was when drafted?

If he burned 2 years of his ELC, then maybe it hurts his value, but you are getting more fully developed player on an entry level deal for up to 3 years...? There is a hell of a lot of value in that, especially if you are tight up to the cap.

Im not saying he is a cant miss top line player, but he certainly has some serious top 6 potential, even in the next year or so. Thats worth a 1st rounder still.
- MacPatty

Worth and value are completely different things.

Quenneville is a great hire for Anaheim. I'd have loved him but probably not the fit for right now.

Is Babcock still around... 🤣
- MacPatty

Yeah. I was hoping for him as well.

Yeah. I was hoping for him as well.
- Grinder47

Sully should be the end of rempe. Might even neuter cuyle enough maybe we can buy low on him.

Also the next Dustin bufyglen was just drafted into the whl Medicine Hat tigers. Brock lesnar’s son. Tank for Duke 2029 😜

Sully should be the end of rempe. Might even neuter cuyle enough maybe we can buy low on him.

Also the next Dustin bufyglen was just drafted into the whl Medicine Hat tigers. Brock lesnar’s son. Tank for Duke 2029 😜
- 10inchTerror

I would expect Rempe to be traded. As a natural center with good skating ability and a 25 ft wing span and reach it would be interesting to see him as a shutdown center. Or Sullivan thinks he can really put his mark on hockey by telling Rempe to never fight or play physical. Just like his no fighting rule in Pittsburgh.

I would expect Rempe to be traded. As a natural center with good skating ability and a 25 ft wing span and reach it would be interesting to see him as a shutdown center. Or Sullivan thinks he can really put his mark on hockey by telling Rempe to never fight or play physical. Just like his no fighting rule in Pittsburgh.
- Grinder47

I imagine rempe won’t leave the ahl next year, if they even offer him a contract for next year.

I imagine rempe won’t leave the ahl next year, if they even offer him a contract for next year.
- 10inchTerror

He’ll be up at some point. There’s a lot of untapped potential there.

Hockey Writers isn't the best site for opinions. Pretty surprising he's only an honorable mention.

Button has him at 43 and Wheeler at 55 in their mid-season rankings.
- Tojo.

Ah didnt realize Hockey Writers was such an outlier to others. I was really surprised he wasnt in the top 100 either, especially after his season this year.

Seth Jones kind of sucks. Dude bumble (frank)s the puck so much.

Seth Jones kind of sucks. Dude bumble (frank)s the puck so much.
- Grinder47

I thought it was pretty shocking Florida traded for him... they made a bet that he has been sucking because he was in Chicago, but really part of why Chicago was sucking was him.

If they were going to go out and get Jones, I cant believe they wouldnt have put an offer in on Karlsson...

I thought it was pretty shocking Florida traded for him... they made a bet that he has been sucking because he was in Chicago, but really part of why Chicago was sucking was him.

If they were going to go out and get Jones, I cant believe they wouldnt have put an offer in on Karlsson...
- MacPatty

If they put an offer in for EK I would think they'd have EK.

I thought it was pretty shocking Florida traded for him... they made a bet that he has been sucking because he was in Chicago, but really part of why Chicago was sucking was him.

If they were going to go out and get Jones, I cant believe they wouldnt have put an offer in on Karlsson...
- MacPatty

I don’t think any true contender is ever putting an offer in on EK.