different situation now, they have another failure on the resume.
It cant work paying Mitch 13 or 14 and be able to rebuild a deeper playoff team
- senstroll

This sure seems like the year they change things up and Mitch is the guy without a chair when the music stops.

This sure seems like the year they change things up and Mitch is the guy without a chair when the music stops.
- Chunga’s Revenge

Marner should have signed an 8 year deal then he would have 2 more seasons with the Leafs..thats if he wanted to stay

The $9M that Bennett is rumoured to be able to get in free agency costs about $7.5M in Florida. Ekblad is making $7M and will want a raise. Marchand is making $6 but obviously will get less on his next contract. Plus, Panthers need to sign a goalie.

Bennett and Ekblad would take up almost all of their cap space
- Chunga’s Revenge

I think getting Jones might allow them to let Ekblad walk while keeping SB AND bM

Yeah, and how many does Marner have? 10 in his career? Just saying, it's not like we're losing a dynamic generational scoring winger here.
- gravyface

Well, you are losing a dynamic passing winger, one of the best in the league.

different situation now, they have another failure on the resume.
It cant work paying Mitch 13 or 14 and be able to rebuild a deeper playoff team
- senstroll

Thats true, but they won the division. So playoff failure, yes.

Team was pretty darned good though, wont be the same sub marner.

Marner should have signed an 8 year deal then he would have 2 more seasons with the Leafs..thats if he wanted to stay
- senstroll

Dubas should have signed both Marner and Matthews to 7 - 8 year deals.
But neither wanted to. As is their right.

Dubas should have signed both Marner and Matthews to 7 - 8 year deals.
But neither wanted to. As is their right.
- Fakepartofme

Dubas was hands down, factually, the WORST General Manager in Toronto Maple Leafs history.

Its not even debatable.

Thats true, but they won the division. So playoff failure, yes.

Team was pretty darned good though, wont be the same sub marner.
- Snot Dillingham

I think they can build a better "team" that works harder in the playoffs, they were able to get Florida to 7 games, but they were heavily out played and out worked a large chunk if the series. that has to change .

Mitch is good but is pushed around easily when a good team puts the pressure on

I think they can build a better "team" that works harder in the playoffs, they were able to get Florida to 7 games, but they were heavily out played and out worked a large chunk if the series. that has to change .

Mitch is good but is pushed around easily when a good team puts the pressure on
- senstroll

sadly, that applies to many of our forwards.

Dubas was hands down, factually, the WORST General Manager in Toronto Maple Leafs history.

Its not even debatable.
- Snot Dillingham

I don't know, you're talking about guys like Gord Stellick, JFJ, and Brian Burke. They were all pretty terrible as Leafs' GMs. I smell some recency bias here.

Dubas tried to outthink everyone else and needed to be the smartest man in the room, but at least he put together a decent team. His extensions did leave something to be desired, though.

I don't know, you're talking about guys like Gord Stellick, JFJ, and Brian Burke. They were all pretty terrible as Leafs' GMs.

Dubas tried to outthink everyone else and needed to be the smartest man in the room, but at least he put together a decent team. His extensions did leave something to be desired, though.
- jmatchett383

Stellicktricity had his hands tied, wasnt great but not the worst.

JFJ was absolutely the runner up to Dubas for the biggest pair of Clown Shoes.

Dubas was such a fraud, his glasses were fake.

Burkie tried with some success, the team was likeable at least.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RD_nfyOnOwM

I think they can build a better "team" that works harder in the playoffs, they were able to get Florida to 7 games, but they were heavily out played and out worked a large chunk if the series. that has to change .

Mitch is good but is pushed around easily when a good team puts the pressure on
- senstroll

True.
But the same can be said of Matthews and Nylander (although he's been our most consistent playoff performer), but Matthews doesnt seem to hate to lose. Doesnt seem to have that extra drive like other top stars.

Dubas was hands down, factually, the WORST General Manager in Toronto Maple Leafs history.

Its not even debatable.
- Snot Dillingham

I think JFJ may have a say in that.
Also, Ballard.

For the record, I dont either.
But you cant overpay even more a reg season performer either.
Based on who is available, you could guess who might....which is all we can do until he is actually replaced.
Maybe willie moves up to replace Marner and you find a 2nd line winger.
We'll see.
- Fakepartofme

This is the way.

Brock nelson extends with Avs.
3year/ $22.5m

$7.5 per.

I think JFJ may have a say in that.
Also, Ballard.
- Fakepartofme

Ballard > Dubas

Brock nelson extends with Avs.
3year/ $22.5m

$7.5 per.
- Fakepartofme

Not bad.

Bennet gets 9.5 back to FLA

Mitch gets 12.5 back to TOR

Bradley gets 7x3 from the Habs.

I agree, Tree.

Sign Marner, let JayTee walk.
- Snot Dillingham

Why?


Re-sign JT on a Yanni Gourde type of deal and let Marner walk.

Use the now 13M or more in cap space Marner would have commanded + the savings on a drastic JT pay cut to get a 2nd line LW (move Willy to L1) with snot / snarl.

Re-up Nick Roberston on a show me deal to 2nd line LW to see if he can sink or swim in the top 6 where he probably needs to be to have success on a show me deal and use the rest of that saved money from Marner and JT's drastic pay cut to get better in the bottom 6, re-sign Knies etc.

Knies - AM - Willy

New Snot/snarl guy - JT - Nicky Bobby

Make up some new lines with these guys (re-sign who you need to), add some new / beter guys to replace those not on this list and say bonne voyage to the them:

McMann
Domi
Laughton
Lorentz

Laughton and Domi can both play centre if/as needed.

You may have Easton Cowan in the mix too?

Things aren't as bad as many seem to want to have us all believe they will be if Marner leaves. Will the Leafs take a step back? Maybe but there is still an awful lot of talent in what the Leafs have IMO.

And no, I did not 'do the math' and no I will not "name the players who you can get' - that's Tre's job not mine! lol

While I do get this in genera, the top-4 SHG leaders are Gretzky, Messier, Yzerman, and Lemiuex. Other elite players like Datsyuk, Fedorov, Bergeron, and Hossa were considered top PK players in the league. Granted, their skill will allow them to put up more SHG than your average 4th liner, but those players still earned SHO TOI due to just being damn good Sh players.
- jmatchett383

These top 4 SHG Leaders you have listed are all guys who are long retired and played in a different era or eras & none of the more current ones took up the % of cap space Marner has and is now looking for.

Having both AM and MM kill penalties is just stupid, think about how much gas they waste killing penalties and if that energy could be better used when they are on the PP or even 5 vs 5.

Having one of your big offensive threats kill penalties , fine I guess but having 2 of your top 3 or 4 if you include JT is just plain dumb IMO.

Let the plugs skate their bag off chasing the puck & icing it to kill penalties, if you need to rely on SHG's to win games then you have a bigger issue and with the Leafs firepower they shouldn't have to.

Personally I wouldn't have had AM on the PK ever.

Why?


Re-sign JT on a Yanni Gourde type of deal and let Marner walk.

Use the now 13M or more in cap space Marner would have commanded + the savings on a drastic JT pay cut to get a 2nd line LW (move Willy to L1) with snot / snarl.

Re-up Nick Roberston on a show me deal to 2nd line LW to see if he can sink or swim in the top 6 where he probably needs to be to have success on a show me deal and use the rest of that saved money from Marner and JT's drastic pay cut to get better in the bottom 6, re-sign Knies etc.

Knies - AM - Willy

New Snot/snarl guy - JT - Nicky Bobby

Make up some new lines with these guys (re-sign who you need to), add some new / beter guys to replace those not on this list and say bonne voyage to the them:

McMann
Domi
Laughton
Lorentz

Laughton and Domi can both play centre if/as needed.

You may have Easton Cowan in the mix too?

Things aren't as bad as many seem to want to have us all believe they will be if Marner leaves. Will the Leafs take a step back? Maybe but there is still an awful lot of talent in what the Leafs have IMO.
- Cush29

Unless JT really really really wants to be a leafs....after brock got $7.5 per year...he'd be crazy to sign for $3-4m per. But we'll see.
I say let Robertson walk....he may not fit Berubes style.....and honestly, most of our players dont fit his style....Matthews is pretty soft and doesnt seem to hate to lose.
Knies gets a big raise.
I wouldnt mind seeing Kane on this team for 2 years.
B tanev for sure.
Resign Lorentz
Get another quality 3rd line that can score.....Marchand if cheap I guess.

And there still is an awful lot of talent on this team, its just that our high end talent, cant get it done when it counts. Everyone loves to dump on marner....but matthews is bigger but kinda just as soft.

Unless JT really really really wants to be a leafs....after brock got $7.5 per year...he'd be crazy to sign for $3-4m per. But we'll see.
I say let Robertson walk....he may not fit Berubes style.....and honestly, most of our players dont fit his style....Matthews is pretty soft and doesnt seem to hate to lose.
Knies gets a big raise.
I wouldnt mind seeing Kane on this team for 2 years.
B tanev for sure.
Resign Lorentz
Get another quality 3rd line that can score.....Marchand if cheap I guess.

And there still is an awful lot of talent on this team, its just that our high end talent, cant get it done when it counts. Everyone loves to dump on marner....but matthews is bigger but kinda just as soft.
- Fakepartofme

I agree if JT wants Brock Nelson money just let him walk but if he REALLY wants to be a Leaf than Yanni Gourde type of deal.

I only say Robertson stays because he's cheap and I think nobody really knows how good he can be if he was a regular top 6 guy. He's 23 and an RFA and was paid 875K last year - I would like to see them take a chance on him but I'm also not opposed to they shipping him out. If they keep him and JT they DEFINATELY need a big body with snarl on that line though.

I'd love B. Tanev but not sure what he would cost and if it makes sense.

Agreed on AM but he's the Captain & a 2 way dynamic scoring centre and they just can't let him go IMO.

I'd be fine with Kane if he wanted to come here but worry about what the drop off in his play & what the cost might be. IS P.Kane coming for 2M (or more since he jsut got 4 last year) and is he the gap in salary better than Robertson if you can get Robertson to sign for 1.25?

Agreed most of this team doesn't fit the style of player you would say is a "Berube" guy but it is what it is.

I keep reading elsewhere that Berube for sure wants to keep Marner and loves him blah blah blah but Berube is simply following the playbook when speaking publicly about any and every player (especially the UFA's) and saying he would love to keep them.

Why would he say anything differently and possibly hurt negotiations? He's not new to this game.....poop he also said he loves JT so I take what he says with a grain of salt and looking through the lens of him doing what his job dictates he does as it relates to his media sound bites.

Brock nelson extends with Avs.
3year/ $22.5m

$7.5 per.
- Fakepartofme

Jt could get similar, but Leafs just need to give him 5 years. lower the aav

TIL there is a coach named Dan Muse and he kinda looks like Michael Berryman

Would be nice to sign Toews in the next few weeks before FA.

Would help landing Kane too.

I think it’s safe to say most folks look at the Panthers as the model to copy right now as far as roster construction.

Did you know the player with the most points on the Panthers was Reinhart with 81?

He was also their top goal scorer with 39 total goals.

Verhaeghe who many gripe about the Leafs not keeping had 20 goals and 33 assists……and was a -14

Sam Bennett had 25 goals, 26 assists and was a -15

So to summarize they didn’t have a single player who even score 40 goals and one guy who got 81 points with the next closest for points being Barkov with 71 points and for goals being Bennett with 25 goals.

And no, they didn’t ride unreal goaltending all year, BOB had a 2.44GAA and a .906 save %

The back up Vanecek was way worse at 3.64 GAA and a .884 Save %.

This is my point, the Panthers are just “built differently” than the Leafs – they are built for playoff success and regular season ‘good enough’.

To me if the Leafs have an opportunity and the flexibility to change and as TRE said “change the DNA” then that’s what I want them to. Not to try and replace the 100 point / Selke nominee Marner in full but replace some of that but also add in some of what he, the rest of the core and the bottom 6 simply hasn’t been able to deliver.

FOR ME that’s not worse that’s better but I can appreciate others don’t see it the same way as I do.
- Cush29

I can't, since you have 100% the correct take on the situation.