Listening to the Leaf post game on 640 last night was interesting. It appears that the supporters of the Kessel trade appear to have almost entirely disappeared. Generally the best language now used seems to characterize the deal as "unfortunate." This does not mean that Kessel is not a good player and may contribute in the future. Rather everyone is beginning to understand just how big a price Brian Blowhard gave in order to do the deal.
- spatso

I think the problem with this trade is that it has put a lot of pressure on the players to not screw up for their GM, and that has led to some choking.


If we hadn't made this trade, we'd probably be doing better right now anyways

People are changing their tunes because of this terrible start. It's not really about "Seeing The Light", everyone should have known this was a high risk move.

I still think the move can work out ok. I think the Kessel deal is now overshadowing some of Burke's bigger mistakes.
- RogerRoeper

I think that we are all in agreement that Kessel is a good player and has even greater potential. I think the bigger issue is nothing more than Brian Blowhar's credibility. I never really trusted him. I was really turned off by the truculence crap and I think I am not alone in my distaste for his style and constant self promotion.

It's far too early to decide who "wins" the trade. First of all Kessel has to play some hockey, secondly the draft order has to be made, third the player(s) the Bruins pick has to turn out equal to or better than Kessel.

That's a lot that has to happen before anyone judges the trade. People just look at him not playing at all now and us as dead last in the league as trading Hall, a first and a second round pick for a guy who isn't even playing. Which is how it looks now but not necessarily how it will look come the draft in June.

Besides, people also forget the Kessel trade wasn't just for this year...it was for the next five years as well. Burke didn't anticipate finishing this low (and IMO we won't finish dead last) but regardless there is no way to know that who we pick would be of Kessel's caliber and even if he is if he could help this team win in the next two years. He could need another year of junior and then still not be ready for the NHL or even if he is it might take him a year or two of playing in the NHL to be effective. Kessel is ready to play now and will only get better (theoretically) as he enters his prime.

Kessel was a move to help us this year, yes, but it was also a move to help us in the next three, four and five years as well. Personally I wouldn't have made the deal if I was in the GM's seat but it's done now. All we can do is hope that it won't be a horrible move in retrospect in four or five years.
- Leafy_84

Is it possible Boston get two lottery picks out of this deal? Even if they pick total losers, the entire matter leaves many of us with a bitter taste. \it is not just the trade but it is the belief that a championship team can only be build through the draft. So how do you ever become a contender if you are absent from the drafting of top ranked players?

I think the problem with this trade is that it has put a lot of pressure on the players to not screw up for their GM, and that has led to some choking.


If we hadn't made this trade, we'd probably be doing better right now anyways
- Feeling Glucky?

I don't know if we would be doing any better. I do know that there would be a lot less anger towards Blowhard.

I don't know if we would be doing any better. I do know that there would be a lot less anger towards Blowhard.
- spatso

On paper, this team is better than last season's. The main difference is the expectations on the team.

Also, it seems that Toskala is a choker. Plays well when nobody expects him to, but when he's the guy everybody looks to, he folds.

Think about it. Played very well when Nabokov was the #1 guy, comes to the Leafs, craps the bed at first, and only after people gave up on him early in his first season with us, did he turn it up. Then the next season he started slow again, and improved throughout the season. Hell, the game before he was put on the IR he made 44 saves, or something ridiculous like that.

The thing that worries me is aside from Ian White, everyone is off to terrible starts.

Kessel and Gustavsson are huge keys to getting better.

The thing that worries me is aside from Ian White, everyone is off to terrible starts.

Kessel and Gustavsson are huge keys to getting better.
- RogerRoeper

That's a lot of pressure for a guy who won't have an elite playmaker centering him anymore and a rookie.

Is it possible Boston get two lottery picks out of this deal? Even if they pick total losers, the entire matter leaves many of us with a bitter taste. \it is not just the trade but it is the belief that a championship team can only be build through the draft. So how do you ever become a contender if you are absent from the drafting of top ranked players?
- spatso

We aren't absent of them though. Schenn, Kadri and Kessel are players who were ranked high in their drafts. The oldest of the bunch is 21 or 22 or whatever.

I'm not happy about trading the picks either. I would have prefered to build through the draft or at the very least wait until next year to see if the cap dropped and what kind of players we could have signed or traded for at that point. But it's done now. All we can do is hope that Kessel is every bit the player Burke thinks he is, that our team turns things around and moves up the standings and that whatever Burke's vision for this team is can be realized and that it is worth all of this bullpoop we've had to put up with.

That's a lot of pressure for a guy who won't have an elite playmaker centering him anymore and a rookie.
- Prax

That's if you believe Savard is the reason for Kessel's 36 goals. I don't. I've studied everyone of his goals scored. He can score a lot with a much inferior centre imo.

That's if you believe Savard is the reason for Kessel's 36 goals. I don't. I've studied everyone of his goals scored. He can score a lot with a much inferior centre imo.
- RogerRoeper

Plus he'll probably average about 5 more mins of ice time a night and play at least a minute of every power play we get.

That's if you believe Savard is the reason for Kessel's 36 goals. I don't. I've studied everyone of his goals scored. He can score a lot with a much inferior centre imo.
- RogerRoeper

Get a life.

Plus he'll probably average about 5 more mins of ice time a night and play at least a minute of every power play we get.
- Leafy_84

He will be the only player the opposition will have to take care of... very different than last year in Boston. There are more reasons to think that Kessel will not be as good with the Leafs than he was with the Bruins. Deal with it. Your team and its management suck big time.

He will be the only player the opposition will have to take care of... very different than last year in Boston. There are more reasons to think that Kessel will not be as good with the Leafs than he was with the Bruins. Deal with it. Your team and its management suck big time.
- jeffyjones

Well when you put forward a well reasoned argument with facts, trends and statistics to back up your claims it's pretty hard to argue with you.

That's if you believe Savard is the reason for Kessel's 36 goals. I don't. I've studied everyone of his goals scored. He can score a lot with a much inferior centre imo.
- RogerRoeper

I'm not saying Kessel isn't a good player, but Savard is a great player, arguably the most underrated in the entire league (evidence: He wasn't invited to the Olympic camp). Boston was stacked last year and that's why so many players had career years, but Savard's linemates feed off of him. And credit to Kessel for knowing how to get to the right spots to score 36 goals, but he wouldn't be over 30 without Savard, and he's not a franchise player, which is what he's being made out to be in Toronto.

Well when you put forward a well reasoned argument with facts, trends and statistics to back up your claims it's pretty hard to argue with you.
- Leafy_84

That's because when he posts more than two words that aren't meant to be a direct attack, you're taken too far aback to come up with a retort.

Get a life.
- jeffyjones

says the guy who gets his jollies trolling

I'm not saying Kessel isn't a good player, but Savard is a great player, arguably the most underrated in the entire league (evidence: He wasn't invited to the Olympic camp). Boston was stacked last year and that's why so many players had career years, but Savard's linemates feed off of him. And credit to Kessel for knowing how to get to the right spots to score 36 goals, but he wouldn't be over 30 without Savard, and he's not a franchise player, which is what he's being made out to be in Toronto.
- Prax

Maple Leafs Hot Stove has an interesting article on what they call "The Savard Myth"

Basically Savard assisted on 25 of Kessel's 42 goals last season (includes playoffs) but of those they maintain that only 6 of the goals were due to Savard making a magical pass and the rest was Kessel doing the bulk of the work. They have a youtube video of every goal scored and I counted about 15 goals out of 42 where he received an amazing feed but not from Savard every time.

Here's the article:
http://mapleleafshotstove...he-overblown-savard-myth/

I'm not saying Kessel isn't a good player, but Savard is a great player, arguably the most underrated in the entire league (evidence: He wasn't invited to the Olympic camp). Boston was stacked last year and that's why so many players had career years, but Savard's linemates feed off of him. And credit to Kessel for knowing how to get to the right spots to score 36 goals, but he wouldn't be over 30 without Savard, and he's not a franchise player, which is what he's being made out to be in Toronto.
- Prax

nail on the head.

he's the only player on toronto that the opposition will have to keep an eye on, mixed with the fact you guys don't have a first liner to play him with means production will go DOWN.

Maple Leafs Hot Stove has an interesting article on what they call "The Savard Myth"

Basically Savard assisted on 25 of Kessel's 42 goals last season (includes playoffs) but of those they maintain that only 6 of the goals were due to Savard making a magical pass and the rest was Kessel doing the bulk of the work. They have a youtube video of every goal scored and I counted about 15 goals out of 42 where he received an amazing feed but not from Savard every time.

Here's the article:
http://mapleleafshotstove...he-overblown-savard-myth/
- Leafy_84

wow, a toronto media outlet calling it "the savard myth"

you wonder why you guys have sucked for over 40 years...

Maple Leafs Hot Stove has an interesting article on what they call "The Savard Myth"

Basically Savard assisted on 25 of Kessel's 42 goals last season (includes playoffs) but of those they maintain that only 6 of the goals were due to Savard making a magical pass and the rest was Kessel doing the bulk of the work. They have a youtube video of every goal scored and I counted about 15 goals out of 42 where he received an amazing feed but not from Savard every time.

Here's the article:
http://mapleleafshotstove...he-overblown-savard-myth/
- Leafy_84

I said he would have 30 without Savard

How many goals were they on the ice together?

wow, a toronto media outlet calling it "the savard myth"

you wonder why you guys have sucked for over 40 years...
- gretzky

Did you read it or are you just going to make baseless comments? If you read it and have an intelligent counter argument to it then by all means go ahead but if you have nothing of value to say then shut your mouth.

I said he would have 30 without Savard

How many goals were they on the ice together?
- Prax

I don't even know if they keep a stat for that...I'm sure it's very high, like 80% or something, seeing as they were linemates. Obviously a player like Savard will create more room for Kessel than a player like Stajan but if you watch the goals probably 30+ of them are just snipe shots coming up the wing or from the middle of the ice based entirely on Kessel's skill alone having nothing to do with who passed the puck to him or who else was on the ice. A few other ones were just jam plays in the crease, once again having nothing to do with who else was on the ice...the few cross crease passes he got were good but I saw probably two or three that were fantastic highlight reel passes that I wouldn't anticipate someone on the Leafs being able to make.

If everything else about Kessel was kept exactly the same minus Savard would his product drop? Of course it would...but people are ignoring the fact that he averaged 16mins of ice time where on the Leafs he'll get more like 20mins...over the course of an entire season that would be like 300mins of extra ice time. A large percentage of which would be played on the power play.

You can't tell me there is a single player in the league if given 300 more minutes on the ice including likely playing half of each PP in every game isn't going to up his stats. That's just plain ignorant.

You can't tell me there is a single player in the league if given 300 more minutes on the ice including likely playing half of each PP in every game isn't going to up his stats. That's just plain ignorant.
- Leafy_84

16 mins a game with Savard and Lucic is still likely better than 20 minutes a game with Stajan and Blake.

=Kessel and Gustavsson are huge keys to getting better.
- RogerRoeper

Lets hope so.