yup, one of the faves
- Schenn-Sational!

That guys best role was Saiid on Oz.

That guys best role was Saiid on Oz.
- sanfordnson

did not watch

I think that is what I said. A better third line center and more depth in your 3-5 defensive position is a benefit. Not sure it gets you anymore wins to significantly alter your playoff aspirations.

The larger point I was trying to make was that Fisher and Blum in the Nashville lineup is a substantial upgrade for them. Blum is their top propect. Fisher is an improvement over Lombardi for no other reason than he will be available to play on a regular basis and can play head to head against the opposing top line center.
- spatso

Blum is a rookie and can not be expected to contribute more than fransen would at this point, Fransen has played 150+ games and had playoff exp also, blum 23 games. and I think Fisher plays over lombardi anyways... so I think Toronto benefits more this coming season than Nashville.

take the anti-leafs goggles off for a bit

did not watch
- Schenn-Sational!

You missed out. Great show.

You missed out. Great show.
- sanfordnson

I'll download it- got 2 8am computer classes, so I can download stuff then... nice speedy business connection

Blum is a rookie and can not be expected to contribute more than fransen would at this point, Fransen has played 150+ games and had playoff exp also, blum 23 games. and I think Fisher plays over lombardi anyways... so I think Toronto benefits more this coming season than Nashville.

take the anti-leafs goggles off for a bit
- senstroll

I think you are taking my original comment out of context. The point that I was making is that the trade for Nashville is a very good trade. The fact that it is a very good trade for Nashville does not make it a bad trade for the Leafs.

Blum is probably a future star. Nashville wanted to move Lombardi at $3.5m, Franson only makes $800k. and he was expendable (because of Blum). I am not sure why people think it is important to characterize the deal as a loss for Nashville. They needed to do a salary dump and they got the Leafs to take on the salary. The deal does not hurt the Leafs, they improve their depth but, as I said before, I don't know if it makes them more competitive in terms of their being able to win more games.

I think you are taking my original comment out of context. The point that I was making is that the trade for Nashville is a very good trade. The fact that it is a very good trade for Nashville does not make it a bad trade for the Leafs.

Blum is probably a future star. Nashville wanted to move Lombardi at $3.5m, Franson only makes $800k. and he was expendable (because of Blum). I am not sure why people think it is important to characterize the deal as a loss for Nashville. They needed to do a salary dump and they got the Leafs to take on the salary. The deal does not hurt the Leafs, they improve their depth but, as I said before, I don't know if it makes them more competitive in terms of their being able to win more games.
- spatso

It was a loss because Lombardi, when healthy, is a very useful player, and Franson, even if expendable, could have brought back a much higher return than he did.

I think you are taking my original comment out of context. The point that I was making is that the trade for Nashville is a very good trade. The fact that it is a very good trade for Nashville does not make it a bad trade for the Leafs.

Blum is probably a future star. Nashville wanted to move Lombardi at $3.5m, Franson only makes $800k. and he was expendable (because of Blum). I am not sure why people think it is important to characterize the deal as a loss for Nashville. They needed to do a salary dump and they got the Leafs to take on the salary. The deal does not hurt the Leafs, they improve their depth but, as I said before, I don't know if it makes them more competitive in terms of their being able to win more games.
- spatso

So, a team that was running Bozak, Grabovski, Brent, Boyce/Mitchell down the middle is now potentially running Connolly, Grabovski, Lombardi, Bozak/Brent, and you're unsure if it's an improvement?

I think you are taking my original comment out of context. The point that I was making is that the trade for Nashville is a very good trade. The fact that it is a very good trade for Nashville does not make it a bad trade for the Leafs.

Blum is probably a future star. Nashville wanted to move Lombardi at $3.5m, Franson only makes $800k. and he was expendable (because of Blum). I am not sure why people think it is important to characterize the deal as a loss for Nashville. They needed to do a salary dump and they got the Leafs to take on the salary. The deal does not hurt the Leafs, they improve their depth but, as I said before, I don't know if it makes them more competitive in terms of their being able to win more games.
- spatso

Easy way to look at it: Is Lombardi better than Brent?
Is Franson better than Lebda?

If you answered yes, it improves the team.

I think you are taking my original comment out of context. The point that I was making is that the trade for Nashville is a very good trade. The fact that it is a very good trade for Nashville does not make it a bad trade for the Leafs.

Blum is probably a future star. Nashville wanted to move Lombardi at $3.5m, Franson only makes $800k. and he was expendable (because of Blum). I am not sure why people think it is important to characterize the deal as a loss for Nashville. They needed to do a salary dump and they got the Leafs to take on the salary. The deal does not hurt the Leafs, they improve their depth but, as I said before, I don't know if it makes them more competitive in terms of their being able to win more games.
- spatso

ok then...

Again you are making the mistake of a fan observer. You want to look at a deal in isolation as it relates to the team you follow. From Nashville's perspective the deal is pretty straight forward. They are able to move out Lombardi because they have Fisher. They move out Franson and they are able to move up their top prospect Jonathon Blum. They are a much better team with Fisher and Blum than with Lombardi and Franson.

It is easy to understand that Nashville is better because of the deal. But, how much better are the Leafs to add two more players that are very similar to what they already have on their roster?
- spatso

It is a good deal for Nashville. They move out $4.3m in salary and they get to move Blum up in their system and, at the same time, provide for Fisher who they took on before the trade deadline. Let's not forget that Nashville has one of the best young defense corps in the NHL. It is proving to be very expensive. Why would anyone in the West want to help Nashville dump salary? Not many teams in the East would be interested either. It was a unique set of circumstances that allowed the Leafs to do the deal. It might actually benefit the Leafs. But, in the larger scheme of things, I really don't think it is anything other than a summer salary dump. Nashville is a much better team because of the deal. The Leafs have added two more players who have a similar skill set to other guys already on the team.
- spatso

These are your words, I am not sure how I am taking them out of context. Its quite clear from your opinion, the Preds improved from the deal and the leafs might but you dont think they will, and you didnt think them adding depth was a benfit either from these two posts.

Just be honest, you cant see the leafs in a positive light no matter what happens, its fine. You may have before, but not now. Every other team makes better moves than the leafs just admit thats how you want to see it because you feel jaded or upset about the leafs over the past 10 years.

So, a team that was running Bozak, Grabovski, Brent, Boyce/Mitchell down the middle is now potentially running Connolly, Grabovski, Lombardi, Bozak/Brent, and you're unsure if it's an improvement?
- prock

t

Do the changes get you more wins? Does Lombardi play a regular season? I think the changes look good on paper, I am not sure it is going to make much difference on the ice. I just don't know if the Connolly/Lombardi part of the moves hold up over a full season.

It was a loss because Lombardi, when healthy, is a very useful player, and Franson, even if expendable, could have brought back a much higher return than he did.
- Schenn-Sational!

But, that is not what Nashville wanted to do and Poile has a history of making good tough choices for his team. I just don't understand why it is important for you to see this as a bad deal for Nashville. They needed to do a dump, they found a dance partner and did what they wanted to do.

t

Do the changes get you more wins? Does Lombardi play a regular season? I think the changes look good on paper, I am not sure it is going to make much difference on the ice. I just don't know if the Connolly/Lombardi part of the moves hold up over a full season.
- spatso

You can make comparisons like that on D and in net too. So.... yeah, I think it will make a difference on the ice.

But, that is not what Nashville wanted to do and Poile has a history of making good tough choices for his team. I just don't understand why it is important for you to see this as a bad deal for Nashville. They needed to do a dump, they found a dance partner and did what they wanted to do.
- spatso

Why did they need to do a dump?

ok then...






These are your words, I am not sure how I am taking them out of context. Its quite clear from your opinion, the Preds improved from the deal and the leafs might but you dont think they will, and you didnt think them adding depth was a benfit either from these two posts.

Just be honest, you cant see the leafs in a positive light no matter what happens, its fine. You may have before, but not now. Every other team makes better moves than the leafs just admit thats how you want to see it because you feel jaded or upset about the leafs over the past 10 years.
- senstroll

I have never said anything bad about the deal. My comment has been more about the fan reaction who think Nashville did a bad deal and the Leafs significantly improved as a team. Overall I think Nashville has done what they had to do in adding Fisher promoting Blum and making space for the Weber contract. The Leafs have added depth by bringing in more players similar to what is already on their roster. I don't think any of that is controversial.

Why did they need to do a dump?
- prock

Fisher, Blum and Weber

Fisher, Blum and Weber
- spatso

What about them?

You're using a stat that doesn't reflect defensive ability to compare defensive ability.

+/- could be useful when comparing players on the same team, as they have more similar circumstances, but even then it's not reliable, for example Bozak is one of the Leafs' better defensive players, but has the worst +/- on the team.

In theory the stat measures total contribution (offense and defense), but in practice, there are too many factors in play to have it be a reliable stat. You using +/- discredits your opinion(assuming any one ever thought positively of it).
- Schenn-Sational!

So what are you using to determine that Schenn is better than Myers???

You can make comparisons like that on D and in net too. So.... yeah, I think it will make a difference on the ice.
- prock

Okay, but why are we supposed to be excited about this deal? Do you really believe it is going to make a significant differece in terms of wins and losses.

I prefer for people to try and express themselves through the use of appropriate language. You could have improved what you said by keeping it simple yet equally direct. For example, would it not have been better if you had said, "I'll take the opinion with a grain of salt though, as it is my opinion that your point of view has a history of being wrong."
- spatso

Who are you? The PC police?

What about them?
- prock

Who is on first?

What about them?
- prock

What is on second.

So what are you using to determine that Schenn is better than Myers???
- Doppleganger

doesnt matter they are garbage compared to campbell! He has a high +/-

flordia stole him from chicago!

What is on second.
- spatso

don't want to go there? What's wrong?

Who are you? The PC police?
- Doppleganger

No. But when people start trading personal insults the quality of the hockey talk goes down. I really enjoy when you and Prock for example debate hockey. But, when you start doing the personal insults it is not worth reading. Actually, neither of you are nearly as bad as some of the people that post here and for the most part it does not bother me. It does bother me when the guys who have good hockey commentary lose their ideas in personal slagging.