Jeremy Laura: Bultman weighs in on Seider and Raymond.

Are all orgs. carrying debt or is this just unique to the two cheapest ownership groups in the league (ARI and OTT)?

Are all orgs. carrying debt or is this just unique to the two cheapest ownership groups in the league (ARI and OTT)?
- jfkst1

Check the 2022 financials. Every single team had a net loss in operating expenses. The lowest loss being Montreal at -12m and the highest was Nashville at -62m. Those two organizations probably had the highest but at least 4 teams were said to be at risk of losing utilities when the billion dollar loan was taken out. Unfortunately, it takes until discovery to get those numbers. Go back early in the season and Winnipeg was struggling because of the $ differential with the USD equal to $1.38 CAN. The top grossing teams in recent history were New York, Montreal, Toronto, Boston and Chicago. The ‘hawks have dropped off a bit and the Panthers likely had a record year. Add to that this being only the 2nd time since inception that escrow was refunded fully with a top off. It’s not a great picture

Check the 2022 financials. Every single team had a net loss in operating expenses. The lowest loss being Montreal at -12m and the highest was Nashville at -62m. Those two organizations probably had the highest but at least 4 teams were said to be at risk of losing utilities when the billion dollar loan was taken out. Unfortunately, it takes until discovery to get those numbers. Go back early in the season and Winnipeg was struggling because of the $ differential with the USD equal to $1.38 CAN. The top grossing teams in recent history were New York, Montreal, Toronto, Boston and Chicago. The ‘hawks have dropped off a bit and the Panthers likely had a record year. Add to that this being only the 2nd time since inception that escrow was refunded fully with a top off. It’s not a great picture
- Jeremy Laura

But isn't that due to COVID profit margins being eliminated? I knew WPG has a lot of financial stress even in playoff seasons which is obviously not encouraging.

But isn't that due to COVID profit margins being eliminated? I knew WPG has a lot of financial stress even in playoff seasons which is obviously not encouraging.
- jfkst1

This is where I’ll turn again to the inception of escrow on the 50/50 split. This past year was only the 2nd time that players had a top off and refund of escrow. Prior to the shut down you had years of 10% and higher. The shut down just exacerbated and multiplied the issue. Almost as soon as the season was shut down, it was announced that there would be an estimated 1.5b loss on that season across the league. The next season was played without fans for the majority and at that point tickets/parking/concessions were 50% of HRR. This is where you see the issue and which teams are a “drag” on others. AZ was a horrible scenario that never should have gone as long as it did. Ottawa has talked about the location not being ideal. CBJ isn’t having a great time right now. When I saw the new TV $ for the WNBA it was a shock to see what Silver was able to help negotiate (NBA has subsidized WNBA) while still getting a huge boost for their own league. Those and average viewership in the regular season are pretty good indicators of perceived value

But isn't that due to COVID profit margins being eliminated? I knew WPG has a lot of financial stress even in playoff seasons which is obviously not encouraging.
- jfkst1

I found the article I’d written with the link to Statista that showed the year of full revenue loss and that link no longer works. Trying to get the chart back. This is the paragraph from the write up January 27th 2023. Montreal was actually down 18m and Nashville posted the highest losses at 56m:
I’ve hinted at some “bad” news in regards to sports revenues, streaming, etc. on July 27, 2022 Statista.com posted the following on NHL operating revenue by team. You may have to “open the rest of the link”, but you can see clearly at the top that Montreal had the fewest fiscal losses posting a negative 18 million in operating revenue, with Nashville at the bottom posting a negative 56 million. I expect next year that AZ will post at the bottom with the current stadium situation.

Operating losses are typically what any sports owner generates. They pay no taxes. Because the business is a loser. But the value of the franchise rises in value. Taxes are only due when you sell that asset. Which can be deferred for decades. The other benefit is real estate, which again, rises in value and is only taxed when sold. Posting an operating loss also draws sympathy from fans and local government. Oh poor me, I own the team and I lose money every year, but I keep doing it because I care about the community.

Amazing how few people understand this. I mean Ottawa lost money each year...until the franchise was sold at a massive gain, more than erasing years of operating "losses". I did the exact same thing in my own business. I magically broke even every single year until I finally sold the company for 8 times what I first paid. Totally legal.

Operating losses are typically what any sports owner generates. They pay no taxes. Because the business is a loser. But the value of the franchise rises in value. Taxes are only due when you sell that asset. Which can be deferred for decades. The other benefit is real estate, which again, rises in value and is only taxed when sold. Posting an operating loss also draws sympathy from fans and local government. Oh poor me, I own the team and I lose money every year, but I keep doing it because I care about the community.

Amazing how few people understand this. I mean Ottawa lost money each year...until the franchise was sold at a massive gain, more than erasing years of operating "losses". I did the exact same thing in my own business. I magically broke even every single year until I finally sold the company for 8 times what I first paid. Totally legal.
- HockeyBuzzed

I’ll push back only on the NFL and FIFA. The NHL is playing a game with this. The walk away in Ottawa by Ryan Reynolds and his group as well as another group came at final discovery. It’s one thing to have the write off. It’s another to pretend being profitable to get the ownership $ which magically isn’t part of HRR so doesn’t have to be claimed by the owners. You probably remember how and why Mario became a part owner in Pittsburgh. They gave him part of the team in lieu of money owed. What the new NBA deals have exacerbated is the degree to which that brand is valued over the NHL. Now we get to the money. The proposed raise on Capital Gains. I havent heard if Tavares is done with his court case, but the signing bonus loophole may be closed with that one. If it does go up to 38% as proposed, that’s a significant shift.

RFA deals take a bit. Plenty of RFAs have yet to sign. Plenty of RFA comparables are available.

Makar, Fox, McAvoy, Hronek, Cernak, etc. are comps for Seider.

Stutzle, Bratt, Caufield, Svechnikov, Connor, Boldy, etc. are comps for Raymond.

RFA deals take a bit. Plenty of RFAs have yet to sign. Plenty of RFA comparables are available.

Makar, Fox, McAvoy, Hronek, Cernak, etc. are comps for Seider.

Stutzle, Bratt, Caufield, Svechnikov, Connor, Boldy, etc. are comps for Raymond.
- Feds91Stammer

Bultman’s stand out “point” was flat cap comparable vs a lofty projection. I don’t know if he has inside info or not on these specifically, but seems fairly confident that the agents are approaching this like an employee would a cost of living raise.

Operating losses are typically what any sports owner generates. They pay no taxes. Because the business is a loser. But the value of the franchise rises in value. Taxes are only due when you sell that asset. Which can be deferred for decades. The other benefit is real estate, which again, rises in value and is only taxed when sold. Posting an operating loss also draws sympathy from fans and local government. Oh poor me, I own the team and I lose money every year, but I keep doing it because I care about the community.

Amazing how few people understand this. I mean Ottawa lost money each year...until the franchise was sold at a massive gain, more than erasing years of operating "losses". I did the exact same thing in my own business. I magically broke even every single year until I finally sold the company for 8 times what I first paid. Totally legal.

That's what us CPAs are for. We're hired to minimize taxes for the owners (which gets passed on to customers anyway). We're hired to minimize profitability during collective bargaining situations (though the NHLPA hires their own to peel back the garbage), then we're hired to minimize capital gains taxes when the businesses sell. Finally, we're hired to minimize future taxes on the trusts that get setup when the businesses are sold (my area of expertise), and the reason is, we know the laws better than the people who write and enforce them.

That's what us CPAs are for. We're hired to minimize taxes for the owners (which gets passed on to customers anyway). We're hired to minimize profitability during collective bargaining situations (though the NHLPA hires their own to peel back the garbage), then we're hired to minimize capital gains taxes when the businesses sell. Finally, we're hired to minimize future taxes on the trusts that get setup when the businesses are sold (my area of expertise), and the reason is, we know the laws better than the people who write and enforce them.
- bluelineenforcer

That, right there, is why I would tell collegiate athletes to try and get an accounting degree. I heard Kevin O’Leary say, “why do you think I don’t take a salary? I take stock sales where I can apply Capital Gains”. It’s an unreal juggling act for bean counters who make peanuts compared to the boss.

Bultman’s stand out “point” was flat cap comparable vs a lofty projection. I don’t know if he has inside info or not on these specifically, but seems fairly confident that the agents are approaching this like an employee would a cost of living raise.
- Jeremy Laura

Bultman has zero inside info. Percentage of cap makes sense from a negotiating perspective but it’s not like the cap moved a ton since the comps were signed.

Bultman has zero inside info. Percentage of cap makes sense from a negotiating perspective but it’s not like the cap moved a ton since the comps were signed.
- Feds91Stammer

I agree and think it’s a flawed tactic to project “within 3 or 4 years they’ll only be this %”. Life happens. We are seeing agents pushing all sorts of buttons. That idea of the 4 round draft came from agents to Friedman. The frustration of teams not carrying the max amount of players was talked about at the beginning of the year. I know it’s their paycheck but it’s not a great look.

Jeremy Laura: Bultman weighs in on Seider and Raymond.
- Jeremy Laura

Seider 8.5x8
Raymond 7.9x8


Getter done

Seider 8.5x8
Raymond 7.9x8


Getter done
- optimus-reim

Then sign JVR at 900K

Then sign JVR at 900K

- HenryHockey

Better yet, sign Evgeny Kuznetsov for 1 x $1.5M !!!!

Stan Bowman in Oil town.
Do the Wings have enough to trade for Drai???

So the Wings have been rated with the worst goalie situation in the league.

"Red Wings fans are warranted in their concern between the pipes next season, writes Jesse Granger, Sean McIndoe and Scott Wheeler at The Athletic. Detroit’s current goaltending situation checks in as the worst in the league in their ranking of NHL goaltending outlooks, with Granger believing there’s strong regression potential for journeyman Cam Talbot, who’s projected to be their opening night starter after bouncing back with a .913 SV% and 27-20-6 record in 54 appearances for the Kings last season. An injury-plagued Ville Husso, average but inexperienced AHL veteran Alex Lyon and reclamation project Jack Campbell don’t do a ton to inspire confidence, either. But no team has as much dichotomy between the present and future as Wheeler labels Detroit as having the best goalie prospect pool in the league, led by a pair of projected future starters in Trey Augustine and Sebastian Cossa."

So the Wings have been rated with the worst goalie situation in the league.

"Red Wings fans are warranted in their concern between the pipes next season, writes Jesse Granger, Sean McIndoe and Scott Wheeler at The Athletic. Detroit’s current goaltending situation checks in as the worst in the league in their ranking of NHL goaltending outlooks, with Granger believing there’s strong regression potential for journeyman Cam Talbot, who’s projected to be their opening night starter after bouncing back with a .913 SV% and 27-20-6 record in 54 appearances for the Kings last season. An injury-plagued Ville Husso, average but inexperienced AHL veteran Alex Lyon and reclamation project Jack Campbell don’t do a ton to inspire confidence, either. But no team has as much dichotomy between the present and future as Wheeler labels Detroit as having the best goalie prospect pool in the league, led by a pair of projected future starters in Trey Augustine and Sebastian Cossa."
- HenryHockey

I’m looking at this now. Campbell is AHL bound at this point. It’s not an unfair write up. To your earlier comment, Detroit can’t come close to getting Draisaitl in my opinion. Edmonton will get him paid more likely than not but Kenny didn’t want to do this or McD’s new deal. They’re going to be significant