Ryan Wilson: Back to reality Back to reality

Turned on the game right as Sid tied it on a backhanded.... Then it all severely went downhill haha

Gawd. Reality sucks.

Bad tending. Bad defense. Same old story.

Turned on the game right as Sid tied it on a backhanded.... Then it all severely went downhill haha
- MattStrat

Sid has looked good.

That escalated quickly...

Was surprised to see Sid a go. Thought for sure he was still injured.

Seeing Chuch and Dubois team up on back to back goals makes me sad a bit. Two players we could have had for peanuts. Would our fortunes have been reversed with Washington had we made those moves...? Not entirely but I do think we would be gearing up for a playoff run instead of looking at tanking.

Sid has looked good.
- madmike71

He has for sure. Surprised he played.

Appreciate, and respect, PK Subban taking up a whole intermission segment basically ranting about how sh!tty of a job Dubas is doing without saying his name hahaha "Sidney Crosby deserves better..."

I think this should definitely put us in the fire sale spot. Sell sell sell! Honestly, this is the reason why we should try to sell Rak, EK, Ned, Grz and anyone else that can land us an asset.

Appreciate, and respect, PK Subban taking up a whole intermission segment basically ranting about how sh!tty of a job Dubas is doing without saying his name hahaha "Sidney Crosby deserves better..."
- MattStrat

4 nations is over. Can we fire sully now?

Appreciate, and respect, PK Subban taking up a whole intermission segment basically ranting about how sh!tty of a job Dubas is doing without saying his name hahaha "Sidney Crosby deserves better..."
- MattStrat

I think he really has been a big issue for this team. As previously stated by all of us he probably should bring in a GM next offseason while continuing to be president.

I think this should definitely put us in the fire sale spot. Sell sell sell! Honestly, this is the reason why we should try to sell Rak, EK, Ned, Grz and anyone else that can land us an asset.
- 123Kid

I agree with you. The farther we get from the wildcard spot, the more likely significant changes could be made. This is a poorly constructed roster from top to bottom.

Appreciate, and respect, PK Subban taking up a whole intermission segment basically ranting about how sh!tty of a job Dubas is doing without saying his name hahaha "Sidney Crosby deserves better..."
- MattStrat

This is a rebuilding roster

It's not meant to gel, to be complete or neccesarily even play well

The Karlsson trade was the last kick at the can for this core. Had Jarry played up to his contract and the team done well to start LAST year, likely would have resigned Jake and been buyers at the deadline and gone all in for another year or two

When the team cratered it entered sell mode. Jake GONE, Bad Contracts for picks in the offseason, Petts GONE - more guys to leave at this TDL. Crosby knows this. There isn't any more future to sell for the present. Not enough that would make this team a contender anyways

The reason Dubas held out for a 7 year deal is he figured he'd be stuck trying to win for 2-3 seasons, then a complete teardown and he didn't want to be at the bottom of that when his contract was coming up

Lets be real. Any GM coming into a team like the Pens with their stars long in the tooth wants to fire sale immediately, bottom out, and be on the upswing within 2-3 seasons.

Pens are sort of in no mans land where if they try to bottom out, everyone complains about Crosby deserving better, and we aren't even able to cash in on the remaining value of the ageing stars, let alone the other guys that carry value because we owe it so Sid to have good linemates. It is what it is

I think this should definitely put us in the fire sale spot. Sell sell sell! Honestly, this is the reason why we should try to sell Rak, EK, Ned, Grz and anyone else that can land us an asset.
- 123Kid

I feel pretty confident we are going to see Bunting going to the Leafs. Domi and a 2nd coming back would make sense. I think Domi has no value, maybe negative but we could use him on the 3rd.

Gryz could next a 2nd, sure thing for a 3rd. Beau, Glass or Lizotte could bring back mid picks. Don't think Hayes is tradeable. I think we use Ned to continue to tank and just buy out his last year potentially.

Karlssons stock just went through the roof... At least to where we were at. Florida, Ottawa and Detroit could all really use him. Carolina as well. I'm not trading him unless it is a nice return.

Rackell is a similar situation. LA, Tampa, Minny would be good fits. But I feel like a 3 team deal with Rackell going to Van and Boeser going out as a rental makes a ton of sense. I don't want to make him unless it's a 1st and a good prospect.

Jarry... I think there is a mutually beneficial trade with San Jose if we are going to try next year. Jarry and the Rangers 1st for SJ's 2nd? Trading down 15 picks to shed a bad contract?

All that said, the biggest no brainier off-season move we should be setting up for is trading for Owen Power. He is a 1LD just coming into his prime and just happens to be available. It will cost a lot, but he's 22 which fits into Dubas strategy.

It's kind of crazy, Buffalo has Dahlin, Power and Byram, and could be positioned to get Schaffer in the draft...

Could we pull off Power for Graves, NY 1st and our 1st next year? I'm sure they'd want Bruinke, but he would be tough to give up.

I love Peterka but can't imagine them letting him go. Cozens though.... That could be interesting. I don't love him but he could turn into a reliable 2C with the Pens.

Power & Cozens for Graves, Hayes, Pens 2025 1st (top 2 protected), NYR 1st, Pens 2026 2nd & McGroarty? Not happening but... Would make things interesting.

This is a rebuilding roster

It's not meant to gel, to be complete or neccesarily even play well

The Karlsson trade was the last kick at the can for this core. Had Jarry played up to his contract and the team done well to start LAST year, likely would have resigned Jake and been buyers at the deadline and gone all in for another year or two

When the team cratered it entered sell mode. Jake GONE, Bad Contracts for picks in the offseason, Petts GONE - more guys to leave at this TDL. Crosby knows this. There isn't any more future to sell for the present. Not enough that would make this team a contender anyways

The reason Dubas held out for a 7 year deal is he figured he'd be stuck trying to win for 2-3 seasons, then a complete teardown and he didn't want to be at the bottom of that when his contract was coming up

Lets be real. Any GM coming into a team like the Pens with their stars long in the tooth wants to fire sale immediately, bottom out, and be on the upswing within 2-3 seasons.

Pens are sort of in no mans land where if they try to bottom out, everyone complains about Crosby deserving better, and we aren't even able to cash in on the remaining value of the ageing stars, let alone the other guys that carry value because we owe it so Sid to have good linemates. It is what it is
- RoloTahmasee

You first few lines are what frustrates the fan base. It's true; however Dubas is saying he is building a competitive roster which is why he doesn't want a fire sale. All of us as fans would rather it be a tear down to the studs with maybe just the big 3 and we would understand how we lose this bad in a game. Instead we are holding on to assets to be competitive (like Karlsson, Rust, and Rakell). If they wanna bomb then bring in all young talent and see what you have.


As a secondary statement when Dubas landed the team his first offseason he completely bombed. Which I feel was the nail in the coffin and has been forgotten by the fan base. Hextall sucked, but Dubas really sucked his first offseason.

Besides Eller he didn't land anyone who actually was any good and he was trying to be aggressive. He bombed with Reilly Smith, Jarry, Graves, Nieto, Acciari, and Karlsson. Plus we lost a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. He could have signed Zucker to a cheap deal who wanted to come back at a discount. E-Rods agent checked in with us because at the time he still wanted to play for us.

Both players right there would have been 6 million and even if we put them on the 3rd line with Granlund it would have been a heck of a line and we would still have money left to sign some players. Plus it would have given us secondary scoring.

I feel pretty confident we are going to see Bunting going to the Leafs. Domi and a 2nd coming back would make sense. I think Domi has no value, maybe negative but we could use him on the 3rd.

Gryz could next a 2nd, sure thing for a 3rd. Beau, Glass or Lizotte could bring back mid picks. Don't think Hayes is tradeable. I think we use Ned to continue to tank and just buy out his last year potentially.

Karlssons stock just went through the roof... At least to where we were at. Florida, Ottawa and Detroit could all really use him. Carolina as well. I'm not trading him unless it is a nice return.

Rackell is a similar situation. LA, Tampa, Minny would be good fits. But I feel like a 3 team deal with Rackell going to Van and Boeser going out as a rental makes a ton of sense. I don't want to make him unless it's a 1st and a good prospect.

Jarry... I think there is a mutually beneficial trade with San Jose if we are going to try next year. Jarry and the Rangers 1st for SJ's 2nd? Trading down 15 picks to shed a bad contract?
- MacPatty

I agree with the players that need to be traded. I think Toronto may have some interest in Karlsson. If Edmonton really wanted to change their roster and make a push for the cup. I believe Karlsson should make a lot of sense for them to pair with Ekholm. Honestly that defensive pairing with McDavid's line it would be pretty terrible to play against especially come Playoff time. It would definitely win them some games. Add in a 3rd team to take some cap space away from Karlsson and I could easily see Edmonton in it. Maybe Anaheim or Buffalo would be a 3rd team. Both have young talent we want and we could potentially ship any picks or prospects to them to land a young talent or two.

With all that said. I have heard a few whispers that we have had some trade talks with the Blues and a few other teams about Jarry and/or Graves swaps with a pick being involved and a player coming back.

You first few lines are what frustrates the fan base. It's true; however Dubas is saying he is building a competitive roster which is why he doesn't want a fire sale. All of us as fans would rather it be a tear down to the studs with maybe just the big 3 and we would understand how we lose this bad in a game. Instead we are holding on to assets to be competitive (like Karlsson, Rust, and Rakell). If they wanna bomb then bring in all young talent and see what you have.


As a secondary statement when Dubas landed the team his first offseason he completely bombed. Which I feel was the nail in the coffin and has been forgotten by the fan base. Hextall sucked, but Dubas really sucked his first offseason.

Besides Eller he didn't land anyone who actually was any good and he was trying to be aggressive. He bombed with Reilly Smith, Jarry, Graves, Nieto, Acciari, and Karlsson. Plus we lost a 1st, 2nd and 3rd round picks. He could have signed Zucker to a cheap deal who wanted to come back at a discount. E-Rods agent checked in with us because at the time he still wanted to play for us.

Both players right there would have been 6 million and even if we put them on the 3rd line with Granlund it would have been a heck of a line and we would still have money left to sign some players. Plus it would have given us secondary scoring.
- 123Kid

Regardless of how bad Dubas has been to date, if we step back and look at the roster walking into next season with the obvious removals only (Ned, Gryz, Beau, Glass, Nietto, Bunting to a lesser extent but I think we trade him) what do we have?

OPEN-Crosby-Rackell
OPEN-Malkin-Rust
Bunting-Hayes-Tomasino
Heinen-Lizotte-Accari

OPEN-Karlsson
Pickering-Letang
Graves- Descharnais/Bruinicke

Blomqvist-Jarry

You have ~$27M, and a thick wallet of draft picks, including a likely top 5. No sure thing but there is a path to being competitive.

Firing someone who is terrible at their job is never a bad thing. Sullivan didn’t lead the US to anything, the Tkachuk brothers did. He’s a terrible hockey person and should be fired immediately.

Regardless of how bad Dubas has been to date, if we step back and look at the roster walking into next season with the obvious removals only (Ned, Gryz, Beau, Glass, Nietto, Bunting to a lesser extent but I think we trade him) what do we have?

OPEN-Crosby-Rackell
OPEN-Malkin-Rust
Bunting-Hayes-Tomasino
Heinen-Lizotte-Accari

OPEN-Karlsson
Pickering-Letang
Graves- Descharnais/Bruinicke

Blomqvist-Jarry

You have ~$27M, and a thick wallet of draft picks, including a likely top 5. No sure thing but there is a path to being competitive.
- MacPatty

Personally? I would attach some picks and get rid of Jarry, Graves and would even trade Karlsson and take lesser of a return to not take on any salary or have a 3rd team retain on his salary. I would trade Acciari I would try to do the same with Heinen and replace them with players from WBS. This would free up a potential 23 million total (50 million cap space). I would be aggressive and try to land 1-2 all-stars. Marner, Rantanen, Ekblad. That would be plan 1. If I can't land any of them or land 1 of them I would shoot for 2nd tier players Bennett, Marchand, Duchene, Chychrun. Regardless an aggressive offseason with a top draft pick could definitely help.


Rantanen (15 million)- Crosby- Malkin
Rakell -Bennett (7.5 million)-Rust
Bunting-Hayes-Tomasino
WBS player -Lizotte- WBS Player

Gavrikov (8 million)-Ekblad (9.5 million)
POJ-Letang
Pickering- Descharnais/Bruinicke

Blomqvist-NED (I wouldn't trade Ned).

I would still have roughly 5 million in space (maybe more because I shot for a higher cap cap hit for each FA signing). Then I could look into upgrading goalie. Trading Bunting and pick for upgrades in Defense.

The Mike Lange tribute is officially up on YouTube now:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lybWDanjlpY

I feel pretty confident we are going to see Bunting going to the Leafs. Domi and a 2nd coming back would make sense. I think Domi has no value, maybe negative but we could use him on the 3rd.

Gryz could next a 2nd, sure thing for a 3rd. Beau, Glass or Lizotte could bring back mid picks. Don't think Hayes is tradeable. I think we use Ned to continue to tank and just buy out his last year potentially.

Karlssons stock just went through the roof... At least to where we were at. Florida, Ottawa and Detroit could all really use him. Carolina as well. I'm not trading him unless it is a nice return.

Rackell is a similar situation. LA, Tampa, Minny would be good fits. But I feel like a 3 team deal with Rackell going to Van and Boeser going out as a rental makes a ton of sense. I don't want to make him unless it's a 1st and a good prospect.

Jarry... I think there is a mutually beneficial trade with San Jose if we are going to try next year. Jarry and the Rangers 1st for SJ's 2nd? Trading down 15 picks to shed a bad contract?
- MacPatty

I would not trade assets to make Jarry go away. The Pens don't need to care about cap because they aren't planning on competing next year. I think if the Pens retained half of Jarry's deal they could easily find a taker in the summer.

Jarry's career isn't over with the lack of tending in the league. Some GM in the league will understand he's playing behind an atrocious defensive team. This is one of the worst defensive teams in Pens history....and that's saying something. Jarry will get 2 or 3 more chances minimum IMO. No need to give up assets at this time to dump him.

I agree with the players that need to be traded. I think Toronto may have some interest in Karlsson. If Edmonton really wanted to change their roster and make a push for the cup. I believe Karlsson should make a lot of sense for them to pair with Ekholm. Honestly that defensive pairing with McDavid's line it would be pretty terrible to play against especially come Playoff time. It would definitely win them some games. Add in a 3rd team to take some cap space away from Karlsson and I could easily see Edmonton in it. Maybe Anaheim or Buffalo would be a 3rd team. Both have young talent we want and we could potentially ship any picks or prospects to them to land a young talent or two.

With all that said. I have heard a few whispers that we have had some trade talks with the Blues and a few other teams about Jarry and/or Graves swaps with a pick being involved and a player coming back.
- 123Kid

4 Nations benefitted the Pens more than any other team. A bunch of injuries popped up and Karlsson showed he still has it. The wildcard with his trade value is that Jones has now entered the mix.

I can't see Karlsson to Edmonton unless they are going to move on from Bouchard. To me it's more likely they'd pursue Jones. Toronto is a great fit for him but can they do it cap wise? Buffalo, also a great fit but the odds of Karlsson waving to go there has to be close to 0%.

Not sure what's happening with the Blues. IMO, they have a solid roster but getting old, so maybe trying to trade while values are high? We have been trading with them a ton, including helping them offer sheet Edmonton, easy to see us doing something else.

Kyrou - he has a NTC kicking in next year. If they were going to trade him, it would be soon.
Binnington - value at a high, they have an internal replacement.
LDs - they have Fowler, Broberg, Leddy & Krug. We don't have any.

Assuming StL is going to move Binnington, there is a Jarry for Krug deal that could make sense. I like the odds of Krug bouncing back after getting his ankle issues sorted better than Jarry becoming useful for us. Could be mutually beneficial.

4 Nations benefitted the Pens more than any other team. A bunch of injuries popped up and Karlsson showed he still has it. The wildcard with his trade value is that Jones has now entered the mix.

I can't see Karlsson to Edmonton unless they are going to move on from Bouchard. To me it's more likely they'd pursue Jones. Toronto is a great fit for him but can they do it cap wise? Buffalo, also a great fit but the odds of Karlsson waving to go there has to be close to 0%.

Not sure what's happening with the Blues. IMO, they have a solid roster but getting old, so maybe trying to trade while values are high? We have been trading with them a ton, including helping them offer sheet Edmonton, easy to see us doing something else.

Kyrou - he has a NTC kicking in next year. If they were going to trade him, it would be soon.
Binnington - value at a high, they have an internal replacement.
LDs - they have Fowler, Broberg, Leddy & Krug. We don't have any.

Assuming StL is going to move Binnington, there is a Jarry for Krug deal that could make sense. I like the odds of Krug bouncing back after getting his ankle issues sorted better than Jarry becoming useful for us. Could be mutually beneficial.
- MacPatty

I think Binnington may have been discussed in a deal with us (this is based on some insider rumor reports).

Toronto has been trying to shop Domi, and Kampf for cap space. I could see us going after Domi, OEL, Robertson, and Timmons. Domi and OEL for the cap space with a Karlsson move, and Robertson and Timmons because of them being previous Dubas prospects. Add in a 3rd team for cap retention and it may have the makings of a deal.

Edmonton I would think could bump Bouchard down with Nurse and make that a strong 2nd pairing.

Ottawa I felt made the most sense for a deal, but now I'm thinking Florida. They hold out Tkachuk until the playoffs and they have additional cap space for the deadline. Maybe we build a package around Lundell or Knight and some picks.

If Murray was tradeable so is Jarry.