The Fan Blog : What Really is Beetter At This Point? Confidence or Tanking?

Philly is basically where the Leafs were before the Shanaplan, where ownership refused to really tank, put the cart in front of the horse in terms of culture/truculence vs talent, and they lived on the PO bubble.

Without Shanny convincing MLSE to tank for just a couple of years there would be no Mitch Marner or Auston Matthews on the Leafs today. With only Willy and Reilly they'd still just be a bubble team, if even that.

Where to begin. There is nothing that has happened under Tortorella, with the exception of drafting Michkov, that will be an aid or matter in the future towards the Flyers actually becoming a legit cup contender. It was a complete waste of time. Only in the Flyers world can you build a winning culture without actually winning. As far as tanking is concerned. Tanking is only step one of a rebuild. You tank and draft the talent. You then have to build on that. Develop the players and make the right moves to build the team with the right mix of players. Tanking absolutely has a much higher success rate than any plan the Flyers have come up with closing in on two decades. Every year they put it off, only delays the process.

How is the Flyers, for about 15 years now, trying to build a top team and failing miserably year after year better than anything that Buffalo, Toronto and Edmonton have done?
There is no evidence that losing from tanking builds a losing culture that dooms a team for the future. There is tons of evidence that tanking goes a long way to building top teams. Coaches and players don't tank. GM's and POHO do the tanking.

Any team who doesn't make the playoffs cannot get the top two picks. The max you can move up under the new lottery rules is 10 spots.

Ah yes, the inevitable 'Buffalo' argument. Let's, put aside the fact that two other teams you mentioned are contenders year in and year out and one just lost in game 7 of the SCF. But but but but Buffalo! What have the Flyers done over the past decade that makes them a better franchise or more well run than Buffalo? Seriously.
- TobyFlenderson

Since they beat Buffalo in the 2011 playoffs the Flyers have won two playoff series. The Sabres have not made the playoffs since. The Flyers are not a better run franchise than the Sabres. Both have been irrelevant for 13 years now.

Where to begin. There is nothing that has happened under Tortorella, with the exception of drafting Michkov, that will be an aid or matter in the future towards the Flyers actually becoming a legit cup contender. It was a complete waste of time. Only in the Flyers world can you build a winning culture without actually winning. As far as tanking is concerned. Tanking is only step one of a rebuild. You tank and draft the talent. You then have to build on that. Develop the players and make the right moves to build the team with the right mix of players. Tanking absolutely has a much higher success rate than any plan the Flyers have come up with closing in on two decades. Every year they put it off, only delays the process.

How is the Flyers, for about 15 years now, trying to build a top team and failing miserably year after year better than anything that Buffalo, Toronto and Edmonton have done?
There is no evidence that losing from tanking builds a losing culture that dooms a team for the future. There is tons of evidence that tanking goes a long way to building top teams. Coaches and players don't tank. GM's and POHO do the tanking.
- MJL

Exactly. I posted a year ago how every cup champ over the last 30 years has had at least 1 former top 5 pick if not multiple top 5 picks.

I’m so tired of these media folks who constantly point to Buffalo to say rebuilds don’t work, while almost every cup champ has done a rebuild to acquire their core. Or they’ll point to STL saying they didn’t rebuild even though they had Pietrangelo as their #1 from when they did tank. And where have they been since he left?

In the cap world you have to acquire elite talent through drafting in the top 5. You can get good players outside of it but you need 1-2 from the top 5. One of the reasons Detroit hasn’t been successful is because they haven’t sucked enough to get top 5 picks.

At the end of the day if your management team sucks then rebuilding, retooling, or any other approach won’t work anyway. At least tanking you might luck into an elite player.

Since they beat Buffalo in the 2011 playoffs the Flyers have won two playoff series. The Sabres have not made the playoffs since. The Flyers are not a better run franchise than the Sabres. Both have been irrelevant for 13 years now.
- mickel25

Completely agree. I'd also add, I don't think Buffalo has had their number one (at the time) prospect come out and say I don't want to play for you trade me. Or their coach get into an altercation with a player so bad that he got fired. Then have the GM publicly admit they've reached rock bottom. But hey. That stuff only happens to the Flyers who are the gold standard.

Completely agree. I'd also add, I don't think Buffalo has had their number one (at the time) prospect come out and say I don't want to play for you trade me. Or their coach get into an altercation with a player so bad that he got fired. Then have the GM publicly admit they've reached rock bottom. But hey. That stuff only happens to the Flyers who are the gold standard.
- TobyFlenderson

Buffalo did lose their budding young superstar and former top pick over a disagreement on a surgical procedure.

They also got fleeced out of the greatest defenseman to ever wear orange and black (and the best playoff defenseman who never played in the playoffs); Rasmus Ristolainen.

The media seems to really be pushing the Tocchet angle. Methinks the organization is trying to prepare us all for the inevitable.

The media seems to really be pushing the Tocchet angle. Methinks the organization is trying to prepare us all for the inevitable.
- MBFlyerfan

I feel the opposite, just a hunch. The media keeps mentioning how close Jones and Tocchet have been. However, what is the connection between Briere and Tocchet. He will be 61 in April. I would think the Flyers would want a bit younger HC to grow with the team. As a comparison, John Cooper was 45 when hired by TB.

I feel the opposite, just a hunch. The media keeps mentioning how close Jones and Tocchet have been. However, what is the connection between Briere and Tocchet. He will be 61 in April. I would think the Flyers would want a bit younger HC to grow with the team. As a comparison, John Cooper was 45 when hired by TB.
- Trox88

Good read, and I hope you are correct.

I feel the opposite, just a hunch. The media keeps mentioning how close Jones and Tocchet have been. However, what is the connection between Briere and Tocchet. He will be 61 in April. I would think the Flyers would want a bit younger HC to grow with the team. As a comparison, John Cooper was 45 when hired by TB.
- Trox88

I agree with this. Why would Tocchet come to Philly with such a terrible team, when he already has a job in Vancouver? The Canucks GM stated that he wants Tocchet to return, so I just don't see it lining up.

I agree with this. Why would Tocchet come to Philly with such a terrible team, when he already has a job in Vancouver? The Canucks GM stated that he wants Tocchet to return, so I just don't see it lining up.
- dramado

Well, the tone of most of the articles assumed he would not be back with Vancouver. If he is staying it's all a moot point.

Someone tell me something about Karsen Dorwart. What is his upside?

Someone tell me something about Karsen Dorwart. What is his upside?
- MJL

From everything I READ, because I didn't know much about him, he seems like yet another bottom 6 defensive first center with ok size and not a lot of offensive upside.

From everything I READ, because I didn't know much about him, he seems like yet another bottom 6 defensive first center with ok size and not a lot of offensive upside.
- MBFlyerfan

Perfect. That's a need for this team. You can never have enough bottom 6 grinding checking centers.

From everything I READ, because I didn't know much about him, he seems like yet another bottom 6 defensive first center with ok size and not a lot of offensive upside.
- MBFlyerfan

That's a lot nicer than I would put it. Everything I see indicates he's a lesser version of Andreas Nodl.

That's a lot nicer than I would put it. Everything I see indicates he's a lesser version of Andreas Nodl.
- BaronVonShiznit

I have no idea about the player but if that is true. That's the Flyers M.O. They love grinders. I bet he has great intangibles. Leadership and oozes culture. A true Flyer.

That's a lot nicer than I would put it. Everything I see indicates he's a lesser version of Andreas Nodl.
- BaronVonShiznit

This one cracks me up the most.


https://flyersnittygritty...a-scouting-report-inside/

Known as an offensive demon, Karsen Dorwart knows how to drive and finish plays. He has a high-end motor, and can accelerate in the blink of an eye.

Dorwart will head straight to the Flyers, largely, due to the Flyers not having any recalls left on the season.

Ok, lets see if Jamey Baskow is right about this. I sincerely doubt it.

I know you deleted it because you figured out it was an April Fools article. But its hilarious. So putting it back up for enjoyment purposes.


https://www.broadstreetho...-street-hockey-exclusive/

s if that incident wasn’t bizarre enough, it was later determined Kolosov spent parts of October, January, and February sleeping in janitor rooms of the Wells Fargo Center hoping to find the rope. Nobody outside of Michkov knew where Kolosov was, resulting in the Flyers being unable to send Kolosov down to Lehigh Valley as they had no figurative or literal clue as to Kolosov’s whereabouts.

This one cracks me up the most.


https://flyersnittygritty...a-scouting-report-inside/







Ok, lets see if Jamey Baskow is right about this. I sincerely doubt it.
- MBFlyerfan

I doubt it as well.

Granted they played at the respective levels a little over 15 years apart, but Dorwart's offensive numbers in the USHL and college are roughly half of what Nodl put up.

From what I'm reading and seeing, the only thing that seems to stand out for Dorwart is his skating ability. Kid doesn't seem to bring much else to the table.

Someone tell me something about Karsen Dorwart. What is his upside?
- MJL

Didn’t see him much. Competes, moves his feet, not fast, not a great finisher, pays attention to defense and creates some turnovers. Depth or 4th line upside.

Perfect. That's a need for this team. You can never have enough bottom 6 grinding checking centers.
- MJL

This is nothing more than a depth signing for LHV (nothing wrong with that). Long shot to reach the NHL.

Many things to criticize this organization. This isn’t remotely one of them.

This is nothing more than a depth signing for LHV (nothing wrong with that). Long shot to reach the NHL.

Many things to criticize this organization. This isn’t remotely one of them.
- hello it's me 2050

About the same size and similar upside as Jackson Cates.

This is nothing more than a depth signing for LHV (nothing wrong with that). Long shot to reach the NHL.

Many things to criticize this organization. This isn’t remotely one of them.
- hello it's me 2050

Except that he is going directly to the NHL as far as I know. At least for the rest of the season.

Except that he is going directly to the NHL as far as I know. At least for the rest of the season.
- MBFlyerfan

Many team do that for college players. See the aforementioned Jackson Cates.